+(800x385).jpg)
Biomancy; Iron Arm 40k6 mini-rule book pg 143
Iron Arm is a blessing that targets the Psyker. Whilst the power is in effect, the Psyker gains +D3 Strength and Toughness (roll once for both) and gains the Eternal Warrior special rule.
Context: Last game had a Daemon Prince that casted this power. D3 was rolled once for Strength and once for Toughness. Effectively +D3 Strength and +D3 Toughness. Example: If a 5 is rolled for Strength Daemon Prince would get +3 to Strength then a 2 is rolled for Toughness Daemon Prince would get +1 Toughness. An onlooker said that you roll D3 and apply the value to both Strength and Toughness. Chaos Space Marine player said that you roll D3 for Strength, then D3 for Toughness.
While I admit the wording is a little vague and can be interpreted different ways. I would like to know your thoughts.
***
Grey Knights Codex 5th ed pg 28 Warp Quake
This power can be used at the start of your Movement phase and lasts until the start of your next Movement phase. If Psychic test is successful, all enemy teleport homers and other items of wargear that prevent Deep Strike scatter cease to function whilst within 12" of the squad while this power is in effect. Furthermore, any enemy unit deploying by Deep Strike within 12" of the squad (after scattering) will automatically suffer a Deep Strike mishap.
Grey Knights Codex 5th ed pg 31 Cleansing Flame
This power can used during the Assault phase in either player's turn, after assault moves have been made, but before blow have been struck. If the Psychic test is passed, all enemy models that are part of the same assault suffer one wound on a roll 4+. Armour save can be taken as normal.
40k6 pg 67 Manifesting Psychic Power
4. Deny the Witch. If the Psychic test was passed and the target was an enemy, it now gets a chance to Deny the Witch and nullify the power. If the power is nullified, the attempt fails and nothing further happens.
40k6 pg 67 Declare Target
If the psychic power requires a target, you must nominate it at this point. Unless otherwise stated, the Psychic must have line of sight to his target.
Grey Knights 6th ed Errata v1.2 page 4
Q: Is Cleansing Flame a shooting attack or a close combat attack? (p31)
A: A close combat attack.
In both cases, Warp Quake and Cleansing Flame no targets are named. i.e Purifiers are casting Cleansing Flame on Khorne Bloodletters and Warp Quake is targeting Deep Striking Tzeentch Flamers. You can only perform Deny the Witch if an enemy was targeted. Neither Cleansing Flame nor Warp Quake nominate a target. Can Deny the Witch be rolled against Cleansing Flame and Warp Quake?
If you have reference from a book please provide the book and page number. Thanks.
slainte mhath
Methinks Iron Arm should be one dice applied to both stats. When GW means the other way around they say "roll once for each" rather than roll once for both... and now for the life of me, I can't remember what has that particular wording. If I remember/find it, I'll let you know.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I'd say you probably wouldn't get Deny the Witch vs Warp Quake, because with Quake you aren't actually targeting anything in the process. The basis for my statement is the way Null Zone functions... an area of effect without nominating specific targets, and nobody can roll to Deny.
On the other hand I would think Cleansing Flame targets (being classified as a close combat attack, via the FAQ) stuff, so you can Deny the Witch, but I have no earthly idea how (I'd assume roll once for everyone ALA the Blood Lance FAQ, but I could be wrong)...
There is a very large in-game distinction between targeting and affecting. Warp Quake's abilities affects enemy stuff within X inches, but doesn't target anything... well... theoretically, it targets the squad itself and gives it the aura of nastyness. But either way no DtW to be had.
I hope that made sense... O.o
I think since Warp Quake and Cleansing Flame don't actually target the enemy Deny the Witch cannot nullify either.
DeleteIf Cleansing Flame can be nullified without a target I would say the goes for Warp Quake. Since the target of Cleansing Flame affects all enemies assaulting the Purifiers any unit Deep Striking into the 12" field would be able to nullify it to avoid Mishap.
The only reason I think Cleansing Flame might be able to be DtW'd is because it was classified as an attack. That said, it doesn't specifically say it targets anything in it's description, so could go either way... how odd.
DeleteI can also see Cleansing Flame being Denied. Also agree that it doesn't specifically say its targeting anything.
DeleteI agree with you, I'd say you can deny cleansing flame, as everyone in the melee fight is "targeted" by this. The null zone is just "lying around" and effects saves.
DeleteWarp Quake's target is the ground, not the enemy unit. Hence no Deny,
DeleteCleansing Flame is essentially a Nova Psychic attack with a range of 'the unit'. Because each model in the unit is specifically being targeted with it, the unit gets a Deny roll.
Mind you, if it's a disorganized assault, each unit gets a Deny roll for THAT UNIT to not be effected.
I see where you're going, Will.
DeleteI don't see ground in the wording of the power. The wording specifically states "any enemy unit deploying" not ground. Since the enemy unit is deploying via deep strike within 12" they are affected and would have a Deny the Witch roll.
I personally think each enemy model, not unit, as stated in Cleansing Flame would get a Deny the Witch roll. The power is resolved on a model by model basis not unit. If one Bloodletter is affected and another is not. You don't roll Deny the Witch on the unaffected Bloodletter. You roll on the Bloodletter that was affected.
Yeah, they usually say roll separately, or something like that. While I can see it being interpreted both ways I would say roll once, and apply that result to both T and S. But as long as it was decided before the dice were rolled, I wouldn't really mind either way if I was playing.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the Grey knight question, I don't really know. I've always played it as if you don't get deny the witch since you don't nominate a target, but I guess it could go either way. I'd be interested to get a better answer because between those and hammerhand, you can't really defend against any of their powers.
I agree with you and Timothy. Roll D3 and add the value to both.
DeleteNever thought of Hammerhand. That would be a buff to the users Strength. How do you nullify a buff that isn't targeting you? Great catch, cpyke.
In regards to Hammerhand, no such luck, same with Sanguinary Sword for the Blood Angels... actually, going back through the old codex powers, most of them (though not all... looking at you Psychic Shooting Attack powers!) are worded in a way that they function similarly to the new blessing powers (after this power is cast models within X" of the psyker/squad...)
DeleteGood information, Timothy. Didn't even catch that. Thanks for the feedback.
Deletewell, the whole "targeting" wording is horrible. Just think of psychic shooting attacks with templates ... You are not really targeting the other unit like with a stormbolter. You just put the flame template in a direction and something happens to every unit under it.
Deleteimo warp quake, null zone, sanctuary and alike are just powers which are "lying around" and don't need a requirement to work (in our case enemy units). Cleansing flames needs enemy models in base contact, same with Stern's Zone of Banishment.
On the other hand we have buffs like hammerhand and Astral aim, which just buffs the own unit.
Shadowcl4w, nicely said "the whole 'targeting' wording is horrible." Couldn't agree more.
DeleteI believe models should be able to get a Deny the Witch when being hit with Warp Quake. Could be from the chip on my shoulder I have against Space Marines.
I'm with you m8, I think Deny the witch should be worded
Deletesomething like: Whenever a model or unit is effected by a psychic power, roll for deny the witch ...
Awesome! Same page, buddy. Wording it like that would solve a lot of issues. Kudos.
Delete