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| Thank you, technorakel! |
It should be noted while this is looks complete it is not. No doubt there are things I've missed.
Here are a lot of rules regarding difficult and dangerous terrain in 6th ed. Figured it would be appropriate to cover these first before going into how they are applied with Orikan/Writhing Worldscape and Tremorstave/Writhing Worldscape.
To reduce redundancy and confusion 40k6 means 40k sixth edition corebook.
*40k6 pg 14
Run: Running movement is not slowed by difficult terrain but models running through dangerous terrain must test as normal (see page 90).
*40k6 pg 22
Charging Through Difficult Terrain: However, to represent the uneven pace of a charge, the unit rolls 3D6, rather than 2D6, and uses the two lowest results as its charge range.
*40k6 pg 27
Consolidate: Units making a Consolidate move are not slowed by difficult terrain but do trigger Dangerous Terrain test where appropriate.
*40k6 pg 30
Fall Back: Fall back moves are not slowed by dififcult terrain, but incur Dangerous Terrain tests as normal.
*40k6 pg 36 last bullet point under arriving by Deep Strike.
Deep Strike: Models deploying via Deep Strike treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain.
*40k6 pg 38
Hit & Run: A Hit & Run move is not slowed by difficult terrain, but treats dangerous terrain normally.
*40k6 pg 40
Move Through Cover: Furthermore, a model with the Move Through Cover special rule automatically passes Dangerous Terrain tests.
*40k6 pg 41
Skilled Rider: Model [sic] automatically passes Dangerous Terrain tests.
*40k6 pg 43
Swarms: However, Swarms are adept at crossing terrain that would slow others -- they are not slowed by Difficult Terrain, but must test for dangerous terrain as normal.
*40k6 pg 45
Bikes: However, they treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain. Each Bike model that charges an enemy model behind a barricade or Aegis defense line, must take a Dangerous test.
*40k6 pg 45
Jetbikes: However, if a moving Jetbike begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a Dangerous Terrain test. Each Jetbike model that charges an enemy model behind a barricade or Aegis defense line, must take a Dangerous test.
*40k6 pg 45
Eldar (and Dark Eldar) Jetbikes: Movement as Jetbikes. When Eldar Jetbikes move in the Assault phase and do not charge, they treat difficult terrain in same way as they do in Movement phase.
*40k6 pg 47
Jump Units Skyborne: However, if the model begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a Dangerous Terrain test.
*40k6 pg 48
Beasts: Beasts are never slowed by difficult terrain (even when charging).
*40k6 pg 48
Cavalry: Cavalry are never slowed by difficult terrain (even when charging). However treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain instead.
*40k6 pg 49
Flying Monstrous Creatures Gliding: If a Flying Monstrous Creature is Gliding, it moves, runs and charges exactly like a Jump Monstrous Creature. (haven't found this in the book yet, maybe same as Jump Unit)
Addendum 12.7.17 per pg 47 Jump modifies the unit type. A Flying Monstrous Creature that Glides is treated like Jump Unit.
*40k6 pg 49
Flying Monstrous Creatures Swooping: In addition, Flying Monstrous Creatures that is Swooping does not take Dangerous Terrain tests.
Addendum 12.7.18 *40k6 pg 64
Fighting a Challenge: In case you were wondering, models that aremoved to satisfy a challenge are not subject to Difficult or Dangerous Terrain tests.
*40k6 pg 71
Vehicles: Vehicles are not slowed down by difficult terrain. However, they treat all difficult terrain as dangerous instead. A vehicle that fails a Dangerous Terrain test is instantly Immobilised.
Addendum 12.10.20 *40k6 pg 79
Disembarking: The model can make a normal move - Difficult and Dangerous Terrain tests should be taken as normal.
*40k6 pg 80
Flyer Zooming: In addition, a Zooming Flyer does not take Dangerous Terrain tests even if it starts or stops over difficult, dangerous or impassible terrain.
*40k6 pg 81
Flyer Hover: If a Flyer is hovering, it is treated exactly as a Fast Skimmer [sic] see page 83.
*40k6 pg 82
Chariots: Chariots move normally for vehicle of their type.
*40k6 pg 83
Skimmers: However, if moving a Skimmer starts or ends its move in difficult or dangerous terrain, it must take a Dangerous Terrain test.
*40k6 pg 84
Walkers: Difficult terrain affects Walkers just as it does Infantry, and only counts as dangerous terrain if it would do so for Infantry. If Walker fails a Dangerous Terrain test, they are Immobilised.
*40k6 pg 90
Difficult Terrain: To make Difficult Terrain test, roll two D6 and select the highest result -- this is the maximum distance in inches that any of the models in the unit can move.
*40k6 pg 90
Dangerous Terrain: Dangerous terrain follows all the rules for diffcult terrain -- you've got to watch your step! In addition, each model must take a Dangerouns Terrain test as soon as it enters, leaves or moves within dangerous terrain.
To take a Dangerous Terrain test, roll a D6. On a result of a 1, that model suffers a Wound. The model may take an armour or invulnerable save, but not cover save, against the Wound.
Addendum 12.7.24 *40k6 pg 95
Reaching the Roof, From Outside, Jump and Jet Pack Units: If their move is sufficient, Jump and Jet Pack units can move directly to and from a building's battlements in their Movement phase, even in the absence of external ladders or Access Points. Battlements are not difficult terrain in this case.
*40k6 pg 95
Addendum 12.7.24; Leaping Down: That model must then take an Impact test. This is exactly like a Dangerous Terrain test....
*Necron Codex 5th ed pg 41
Writhing Worldscape: Whilst the C'tan Shard is on the battlefield, all difficult terrain is also dangerous for the enemy. If the terrain is already dangerous, the Dangerous Terrain test is failed on a 1 or 2.
*Necron Codex 5th ed pg 57. Updated per Necron FAQ 6th edition, version 1.1
Temporal Snares: During the first game turn, all enemy units that move count as moving through difficult terrain. If they are actually moving through difficult terrain, then a unit moves the lowest D6 result of their difficult terrain test, rather the highest.
*Per Games Workshop FAQ
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2570047a_Necrons_v1.1.pdf
Q: Does Writhing Worldscape cause every model moving through difficult terrain, moving as if in difficult terrain and counting as moving through difficult terrain to take a Dangerous Terrain test?
A: Yes.
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| Thank you, technorakel! You're awesome! Want to green stuff this some day. Thank you, Natfka, for pics of the week. |
Now onto tactics. Something Daemon armies can do is deep strike in and run during shooting phase to close the distance for that second round assault, into Cover if they scattered too far away or jump on an objective. One of Bryan's favourite tactics.
Time to stack Orikan's Temporal Snares with C'tan's Writhing Worldscape. Orikan makes all enemy moving difficult in the first turn. This isn't just during the movement phase. This is the first game turn. Something I've missed in every game against Chaos Daemons. I only had them test during movement phase. Not when they were running. /Homer's Doh!
Orikan makes Chaos Daemons deep striking into difficult terrain. Since deep strike treats difficult terrain as dangerous each model rolls to see if they take a wound. C'tan Shard turns dangerous 1 on D6 into dangerous 1 or 2 on D6. Every daemon that is coming down makes dangerous terrain check. 1 or 2 on D6 they take a wound. Great way to remove 5++ daemons. Daemons that Run to get into cover or close distance for that second round assault also have to make a dangerous terrain test. This occurs on a 1, not 1 or 2.
I've come up with a couple of ways for daemons to not be as affected by this. I also need to be a little careful about what I say on this blog because Captain Hammer is among our readers.
It should be noted there's been a change to dangerous terrain checks. Most of you caught it the first time. Models can now use armour saves. 5th ed said no armour saves allowed. What used to be great to eat up marines now isn't. Of course I don't blame them. They have a hard time hearing others over the sound of how awesome they are.
Now adding in my buddy Simon's suggestion. Royal Court, Crypteks, Tremorstaves, Oh My! Load up with some Harbingers of Transmogrification and start creating difficult terrain for units. So you are taking advantage of Writhing Worldscape the entire game. Those difficult terrain tests now become dangerous test. Affected units make difficult terrain tests use highest out of 2D6 and dangerous terrain D6. This is stated in both Necron FAQ and 40k6.
How Tremorstave/Writhing Worldscape affect units.
Tremorstave Quake is different than Temporal Snares. Enemy units hit by Quake treat open ground as difficult terrain during the movement phase. Temporal Snare is move during the first turn.
Infantry make difficult and dangerous test.
Correction 12.10.23. Thanks, Suijin. Quake affected Jump Units, including Jump Pack Units, Bikes, Jetbikes, Eldar Jetbikes, Cavalry, Gliding Monstrous Creature (added 12.7.17) & Leaping Down (added 12.7.24), have to test at the beginning of their move. They would take a wound on 1 or 2. Same applies for Flyers Hovering and Skimmers except they are immobilised at end of their move. If These units move from open terrain into difficult terrain, or vice versa, then they would test Dangerous at the beginning of their move in open terrain and test again ending their move in difficult terrain.
Skilled Rider no affect.
Swarms and Beasts aren't slowed by Tremorstaves but do take Dangerous Terrain test due to Writhing Worldscape.
Gliding Flying Monstrous Creatures, not exactly sure pretty sure they are treated like Jump Units.
Addendum 12.7.17 They are treated like Jump Units
Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures aren't affected.
Addendum 12.7.18 Characters in Challenges aren't affected.
Vehicles only make one roll when going through dangerous terrain. They are immobilised on 1 or 2.
Flyers Zooming are not affected though they must look cool shimmering as gravity is attempting to affect them.
Chariots based on vehicle type.
Walkers same as Infantry.
Drop Pod assault. They deep strike onto the board. Which is Dangerous for them. Since it's already dangerous they would suffer an immobilisation hit on 1 or 2. Since Weapon Destroyed is no longer on the vehicle damage chart and Drop Pod is already Immobile they would lose a Hull Point 1/3rd of the time.
slainte mhath
Great article, now bookmarked for reference :D
ReplyDeleteThank you, IDICBeer.
ReplyDeleteSome arguments against some of the stuff in here:
ReplyDelete"Jump Units Skyborne: However, if the model begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a Dangerous Terrain test."
Mathematically OR has this definition:
0 OR 0 = 0
1 OR 0 = 1
0 OR 1 = 1
1 OR 1 = 1
The rule says to take "a" dangerous terrain test meaning one test. The mathematical definition would seem to indicate only 1 test per move if you begin and end your move in difficult terrain. The other way to interpret it is more difficult for me, but the way it's written could be taken as beginning and ending as separate events which you take the test for each one.
The issue is solved in the Dangerous terrain rules on page 90:
“Once a model has taken a Dangerous Terrain test for a particular area of terrain, it does not test for that area of terrain again in the same phase. However, if the model moves into a different area of dangerous terrain, these must be tested for as normal.”
So if you leave and enter the same area of terrain then you only test once. If the terrain is defined as different areas then you test for each time.
One thing lacking in the whole dangerous on a 1 or 2 test thing is the order of operations you apply the rules.
ReplyDeleteSince some terrain is always defined as difficult that is always in effect. Before models move, either by Deep Striking or a vehicle moving, Writhing Worldscape would already be in effect. This would already have turned the difficult terrain into dangerous terrain. So when you Deep Strike or have a vehicle move into Dangerous Terrain this would not convert into doubly Dangerous Terrain because there is no rule to make Dangerous Terrain into doubly Dangerous Terrain for models moving into Dangerous Terrain, strictly RAW.
Great point, Suijin, about Jump units testing once not twice in same Dangerous Terrain. i.e. Open field to open field. Completely missed that, nice catch. Will correct it.
DeleteRegarding the rules for Temporal Snares and Writhing Worldscape here they are.
Necron 5th ed pg 57 (with errata)
Temporal Snares: During the first game turn, all enemy units that move count as moving through difficult terrain. If they are actually moving through difficult terrain, then a unit moves the lowest D6 result of their difficult terrain test, rather than highest.
Necron 5th ed pg 41
Writhting Worldscape: Whilst the C'tan Shard is on the battlefield, all difficult terrain is also dangerous for the enemy. If the terrain is already dangerous, the Dangerous Terrain test is failed on a 1 or 2.
The doubling occurs because of the last bullet point on 40k6 pg 36 'Models deploying via Deep Strike treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain.'
Since Temporal Snares are in effect during first game turn. Half Daemon army deep strikes into difficult terrain, which is dangerous. Writhing Worldscape says if its already dangerous it is 1 or 2.
I believe we can agree the rules, per usual, aren't written clearly. RAW is subjective. We've read "rules as written" differently. No doubt two other players have experienced the same regarding a different rule of the game.
I pose you this question. How do you think Temporal Snares and Writhing Worldscape work together?
Mostly because Writhing Worldscape is already in effect before the enemy model moves. It doesn't take effect after the model starts moving.
DeleteSo before the model moves the difficult terrain has already been converted by writhing worldscape to dangerous terrain. Then dangerous terrain remains just plain dangerous terrain.
To get to 2x dangerous terrain it would already have to be dangerous with WW converting it. For instance some of the new terrain types, lava, mysterious terrain, etc. already being dangerous.
6th ed. does have more possibilities for regular dangerous before WW is applied compared to 5th ed. I don't believe most play their games that way, but then you have to realize that may be why they have it written that way.
Nothing is really super concrete about my argument as far as knowing how they wanted it done. My main point and the one that tips it one way for me is the WW already functioning before the units deep striking or moving.
You would have thought they would have included that example in the FAQ after going as far as they did with the difficult terrain definitions. It's not as if that example wasn't talked about a lot on the forums prompting the difficult terrain definition.
What happens to Temporal Snares during the first game turn?
DeleteTemporal Snares: During the first game turn, all enemy units that move count as moving through difficult terrain. If they are actually moving through difficult terrain, then a unit moves the lowest D6 result of their difficult terrain test, rather the highest.
ReplyDeleteGW FAQ
Q: Does Writhing Worldscape cause every model moving through difficult terrain, moving as if in difficult terrain and counting as moving through difficult terrain to take a Dangerous Terrain test?
A: Yes.
The FAQ does say every model and only says dangerous terrain, not dangerous on a 1 or 2.
Just because Temporal snares causes difficult terrain in open terrain doesn't cause any issues for me. That was never an issue in the getting to 2x dangerous. Other than causing the effect everywhere, which is nice from a game standpoint against the enemy, I don't understand your question about what happens to TS during the first game turn.
Fair. Hopefully clearer mquestion.
DeleteAre both Temporal Snares and Writhing Worldscape in effect first turn of the game?
Assuming the C'Tan Shard is on the table and the TS rule is in effect however that is accomplished (having whatever HQ and/or having him on the field if necessary, I don't know the requirement and don't own the Necron codex), then yes. Why would it not be?
DeleteThat has been my point from the very beginning. Even when talking about this at game.
DeleteObviously I haven't been clear with my communication.
Allow me to illuminate a point I'm sure I haven't clear with.
Orikan is a Necron HQ. He has a special ability called Temporal Snares. This effect occurs during the enemies first turn.
C'tan has Writhing Worldscape which messes with terrain on the board.
Both Orikan and C'tan are on the board in the first turn of the game. Temporal Snares would be in effect and Writhing Worldscape makes TSs difficult terrain movement worst.
I never doubted rules-wise the dangerous terrain tests. It is the doubly dangerous tests I am not convinced you get unless the terrain was already dangerous naturally to everything.
DeleteAny established rules sets that rule a certain way like INAT FAQ (that one doesn't have a ruling on this that I saw reading through and searching it). Not that how anyone else plays it matters to hardly any degree, but do other people rule on this a certain way?
madival at Lesser of All Evils blog runs same way.
DeleteOrikan by himself only makes movement difficult.
C'tan by itself only makes difficult dangerous.
When they combine that is when things get hairy.
Too bad you can't move the enemy in say the shooting or assault phases on your turn to prompt more dangerous terrain checks, things like consolidate, Fall Back, etc.
ReplyDeleteI don't know of many things besides Lash and Fall Back that could really prompt that. I think any allies which could help you with that would be enemies WRT the dangerous terrain you put out also, so no good there.
WRT?
DeleteI'm actually working on a Necron list that is meant to exploit Orikan/C'tan while severely f'ing with the opponent into immobilised/wrecked vehicles and removing models due to Dangerous Terrain. Good thing is I only need two, maybe three, models for it to work.
Love that 40k "Only two, perhaps three, for the next version of your army. No seriously. Trust us. These will be the last you'll need to buy."
with respect to
DeleteAn ally with Move Through Cover would work I guess. I haven't come up with anything else. Necrons don't have Battle Brother allies though so you would still be taking lightning strikes.
Yeppers, lightning'r'us for everyone. Wonder twins powers, temporal snares and writhing worldscape would affect "allies." We agree. Recent batrep actaully covered this.
DeleteDo you need to take dangerous terrain tests if your vehicle explodes or is wrecked? Looks like they do per page 90 as they are entering the terrain.
DeleteDid you include Pile-in during assaults for taking Dangerous terrain tests? You know the moves at each I. From page 23.
40k6 pg 74 Explodes "The vehicle is then removed and replaced with scattered wreckage (area terrain)." Yes moving out of area terrain is difficult, with C'tan dangerous.
DeletePile-in yes, dangerous tests are taken 40k6 pg 23 "(though it may still trigger Dangerous Terrain test)"
Even placing the models in the crater from the transport exploding should trigger a dangerous terrain test as the terrain is difficult naturally.
DeleteThen moving out of that crater is another test if they do it.
If they don't all make it out of the crater then they get a third test.
40k6 pg 91 "Area terrain is always difficult terrain."
DeleteThat is wonderfully harsh. I'd love it! Would never enforce it. I would say moving out of the vehicles wreckage would require a difficult test. If C'tan on field then difficult and dangerous.
Delete