Saturday, September 7, 2013

First Impressions 6th ed Space Marines Codex

Here's my first impressions of this codex.  Probably more aptly named "And the Rant Continues."  Onto the new cheese that is Space Marines Codex 6th ed.

JJ typing, here are a couple of things I see going for this edition of Space Marines codex.  First they don't have some huge walking monstrous creature thing.  Though they do have new funny suits.

Honest first impression is that if we buy any codex except Space Marines we are getting screwed over.   Besides the same old tired exclamation of buying expensive plastic crack check this out.  Someone please explain this to me in a way that makes sense.

6th ed Space Marine codex is 179 pages for 58$.

6th ed Eldar, Tau and Daemons codex is 105 pages for 49.50$  Dark Angels was 105 pages for 50$.

For the Space Marine codex you are getting 3.08 pages per dollar.

For all Eldar, Tau and Daemons you are getting 2.12 pages per dollar and 2.1 pages for Dark Angels.

Let's use Eldar, Tau and Daemons pages per dollar to find out how much Space Marine codex would've cost if everything was fair.  Price would be 84.34$.

If that isn't blatant favouritism towards Space Marines than those numbers I don't know what is.  Why is the Space Marine codex cheaper?  Why?  I understand equality is an illusion and it is an ideal goal to strive for, things will never be equal.  Can someone, anyone, please explain to me why the Space Marine codex is cheaper?

Onto lighter topics.  The art in the first part of the codex is beautiful.  Simply beautiful.  The galaxy map on page 16 and 17 is outstanding.  Love that keep making the galaxy map better!  Second part of the book keeps with the theme from Dark Angels.  Instead of different tanks and squads having their own pages like in previous editions they are lumped together across two pages.  Terribly efficient in my opinion.

Now the weapons.  We have Grav weapons which in my opinion are BS.  So what if it wounds on armour saves instead of Toughness.  They are all AP 2.  Yes the lighter your armour is the harder it is to wound you, but the armour penetration of the weapon ignores your light armour even thought it may be more difficult to wound you.  I don't even understand that.  Looks like daemons just became badasses on the field.  Since they don't have an armour save they can only be wounded on a 6.  At least that is how I'm presently reading it.  If someone wants to help me understand it differently please let me know how you read it.

The wording from the book

The roll needed To Wound when firing a grav-weapon is always equal to the armour save of the target, to a minimum of 6+.

Since daemons don't have an armour save the minimum to wound them would be 6.  40k buddy Connor is of the mindset that his daemon princes will automatically be wounded since they don't have an armour save.  Right now I'm think any model that doesn't have armour can only be wounded on a 6.  We'll find out how this works soon enough.  There isn't a Space Marine FAQ yet.  Several new FAQs have changed with the Sept update.

Icarus Stormcannon Array is R 48 S 7 AP 4 H 4, Skyfire, twin-linked.  Why are skyfire weapons ceiling strength 7?  Thoughts, besides giving flyers a chance to stay alive?

Now the last section of the codex.  My prediction from yesterdays post has come true.  Master of the Forge allows you to have six dreadnoughts.  My tenth army has received the green light!

Centurion models are disgusting.  Not a fan.  Seriously think they could've made a better model.  Why, yes I want three drill bits on the end of my arms.  Because I'm a Space Marine if I didn't have them I wouldn't be cool.

Lascannon for Devastators dropped 15 pts from 35 pts in 5th and 4th ed (pg 142 and pg 38 respectively) to 20 pts.  Lascannon now cost the same for Tactical and Devastator squads.  A point someone made in a previous post why the Lascannon cost different points in those two units is now mute.

Here's a reenactment of Connor at Olde Chicago a couple of Fridays ago.  Regarding new Space Marine codex.

Phil Kelly visits Jeremy Vetock's desk: Hey, what you working on?  Dark Angels?  Cool.  They don't have to make morale rolls, great!

Phil Kelly goes over to Robin Cruddace's desk: Hey, what are you doing?  Working on Space Marines?  Nice!  They have squads that make their morale checks and don't get sweeping advanced?  Sweet!

Phil Kelly goes back to his desk.  Sits down and ponders to himself 'hmm, what should I do (Connor puts his hands on his face and pulls down the sides of his cheeks)?'  "I've got it!  CSM troops will cost 13 pts.  Once point cheaper than a Space Marine Troop."

Then Connor goes on about what he's going to do when Space Marines Codex lands.  He's going to buy a ticket and fly to England.  Buy limited edition Ultramarines Codex and Chaos Space Marines Codex.  Break into Phil Kelly's house in the middle of the night.  Wake him up.  Open up both books to the troop section.  Highlight point cost for single marine and point cost for single chaos space marine leave and not say a word.  Then fly back home.

Damn that Connor is one funny mthrfckr!

Marines costing 14 pts and Chaos marines costing 13 pts tells me one thing.  And They Shall Know No Fear costs 1 point.  I fail to understand why something so powerful costs only one point.

Quick tangent about more Eldar stuff being stolen.

Grey Knights stole Eldar 4th ed Ghost Glaive.  Now Eldar 6th ed is left with tattered remains of its self-esteem that is Master-crafted with +1 Str with 2 Ap that can only be wielded by models who already have 2 Ap.  Not the re-roll Hits, Wounds and Armour Penetration like the Nemesis Greatsword now has.  Can this please stop this from happening?

End of tangent.  Back to Space Marine codex review.

From first-impressions-of-6th-ed-dark-angels Codex Review.

One example regarding codex creep and favouritism towards Space Marines and points is:

5th ed Space Marines codex pg 134 4 marines and 1 sergeant are 90 points.  You may buy five addition marines for 16 points each.  So a squad of 10 marines cost 170 points.

4th ed Eldar codex pg 64 squad of 10-20 Guardians at 8 points a model.

Now some will argue that the 10 points for the first five marines is for the sergeant which has +1 to  A and Ld.  Others may say well you can buy a Warlock for the Guardians.  You're paying 25 points for 4++, invulnerable, +1 to WS & BS.  Way I understand their point is it's 5 pts to increase characteristic by 1 and 15 points to make a 5+ a 4++ save.

Let's talk both 6th ed codex.  Someone made a comment that I really shouldn't compare the two codexes because they aren't the same edition.

6th ed Space Marines codex pg 167 four Marines and 1 sergeant are 70 pts  You may buy up to five additional Marines for 14 pts per model.

6th ed Eldar codex pg 96 ten Guardians are 90 points.  You may buy up to ten additional Guardians for 9 points per model.

Now we can compare additional models being added to each unit.  Tactical squad are 14 points each, two point decrease.  Guardians are 9 points each, one point increase.  Guardians don't get anywhere near the options Tactical squads do.  Yes you get ten Guardians instead of five Marines.  Something about it just doesn't feel right.

Now let's move to Space Marine Scouts from a codex review that shouldn't be read.

3rd ed Space Marine codex pg 10 Scout Squad 13 pts a model.  Two special rules.

4th ed Space Marine codex pg 34 Scout Squad 13 pts a model.  Two special rules.

5th ed Space Marine codex pg 134 Scout Squad 13 pts a model.  Six special rules.

6th ed Space Marine codex pg 167 Scout Squad 11 pts a model.  Six special rules. 

Compared to Eldar.

Eldar Codex 3rd ed pg 11 Rangers 19 pts/model.  Three special rules.

Eldar Codex 4th ed pg 64 Rangers 19 pts/model.  Three special rules.  Bit of an oddity that a squad remains same point cost across multiple editions.

6th ed Eldar codex pg 97 Rangers 12pts per model.  Six special rules.  Now we are talking about an appropriate point decrease.

Will admit based on points alone that Rangers appear to come out better than Scouts.

We now resume our Storm shield rant already in progress.

Previously on link: 'Storm Shield Rant'

Storm Shield.  These are pure cheese.  Some of you may remember the long arduous history of this piece of wargear.  Some of you were probably happy to see it grow into the cheesy piece of Space Marine Wargear its come to be.  I did not.

Space Marines 3rd ed

Storm Shield 4+ invulnerable save in close combat, instead of normal armour save.  The save may only be used against one opponent per turn. pg 35.
Space Marine Armoury, Single-Handed Weapons Storm Shield 10 pts pg 6 (Space Marine Heroes pg 7).

When I first read this piece of wargear I was impressed and thought it was damned cool.

Space Marines 4th ed

Storm Shield 4+ invulnerable save in close combat instead of its normal armour save pg 25.
Storm Shield 10 pts pg 22 (Commander pg 28).

The changes to the shield didn't really bother me.  Instead of one close combat attack. Now it's against all.  Why would someone move their shield to stop the next attack?  Then again the next attack would come from a different angle possibly out maneuvering the shield.  Little buff for the same point cost.  I'm comfortable with this slight change.  However the next change really had my blood boiling.

Space Marines 5th ed

Storm Shield 3+ invulnerable save pg 101.
Storm Shield 10 pts 15 pts (read entry regarding terminator armour not replacing bolt pistol and/or chainsword entry.  anon 6:47 provided the correction.) pg 131 (Space Marine Chapter Master).

Now to find out how this holy cheesy wargear has improved in 6th ed.

6th ed Space Marines.

Storm Shield 3+ invulnerable save pg 125.
Storm Shiled 15 pts pg 163 (Space Marine Chapter Master).

Seems no creep has happened here and it may have stopped evolving.  Praise Ynnead!

Now let's move to the Land Raider.

The following from link: Broken Land Raiders

One of my favourite codex creep is the Land Raider.

3rd Space Marines Codex pg 15 Land Raider pts 250.

4th Space Marines Codex pg 40 Land Raider pts 250 Power of Machine Spirit has BS 2.  Can operate one weapon per turn as long as the vehicle has moved no more than 6".

5th Space Marines Codex pg 142 Land Raider pts 250 Power of Machine Spirit.  Tank BS 4.  Can fire one more weapon than would normally be permitted.  In addition, this weapon can be fired at a different target unit to any other weapons, subject to the normal rules for shooting.

You'll notice that the Land Raider remained same price across three different editions while only getting better.

How does it get better in 6th ed let's take a look.

6th ed Space Marines codex pg 177 Land Raider pts 250.  Amazingly its transport capacity has been reduced to ten models.  Until a FAQ corrects it.  Looks like this wonderful tank has actually been nerfed a little bit.  About time if you ask me.  Please GW don't make a FAQ bringing Land Raider transport capacity to 12.  Please don't do that.

Now onto one thing I think what Space Marine codex did right.

They fixed the Drop Pod immobilised lose a hull point when landing BS.  It does not lose a hull point when it lands.  Finally.  That has been bugging me for quite awhile.

I'm sure I'll find more things when I start reading it Mon.  As of right now I feel ok about the codex.  Nothing is advancing my hatred towards Marines.  The two new models, four units, the army received aren't attractive to me.  Both the rules and models itself.

Last thoughts on the codex.  Don't think it will pull marines back to the table.  We may see an occasional new marine army at the table.  Won't make as big of a splash as some have thought it would.

Here's one last bit about the Space Marine codex.  Specifically the release.  As I mentioned the post yesterday.  It happened almost verbatim.  Walked into Fantasy Flight last night handed Dave can of Sir Perry's Pear Cider.  He told me that he hasn't broken into the two pallets from GW yet.  While getting some beverages later he was indeed looking bewildered and wonder where's Toto.  He received everything he order for Space Marines plus an extra shipment he didn't order.  Doesn't even know why he received them.  He got six drop pods, brushes, paints, books and various other Space Marine and some Fantasy models.  He really was beside himself as to what was up with the extra order.  He said he won't complain if GW ships him stuff he didn't order or pay for.

I imagine for those of us who look for information about Space Marine release shortage later this week all we'll hear are the sound of crickets.

slainte mhath


  1. Grav Weapons are designed to take out Riptides, Wraithknights, Dreadknights, Terminators, Monsterous Creatures and the like. Anything with a high toughness and low save, that is what they are designed for. Personally I played a game today with 4 Combi-Grav on my bike command squad. Perfect platform for these weapons – Wraithknight dead in one round of shooting and the bikes still have their twin linked bolters they can use after they pop the Grav. If there is nothing for them to go after – who cares? It’s a 40 point insurance policy. Otherwise I am dumping a shed load of shooting to bring that thing down, and none of it would wound on a 3+.
    I used 3 Centurians, 2 with Grav Cannons and the Sergeant with Lascannons and a Omiscope. First turn night fight and I have two Wave Serpents across the table. Gran Cannons moved up and blew one off the table and the Lascannon stripped a hull point off the second. Turn two both wave serpents are a crater and we are going after the Fire Prism. Yes, the Grav weapons need a 6 to take a hull point, but they also get an immobilized out of the deal. And don’t forget that a second immobilized result strips two hull points and its game over for the vehicle. Anything with three hull points goes down on two 6’s. And oh by the way, you are rerolling the result because of the Grav Amp on the Grav Cannon.
    I played my White Scars / Imperial Fists list today and loved it. It was the list I have been trying to play for a year but never could because of the points. With the new codex I built it for 1850 points and I am ready to go for a annual local GT here at the end of the month. I built that same list with the old codex and it can out at 2158, 308 point drop in a list in one day. Now that is some serious codex creep. If you really want to have fun, build a Raven Wing list with DA and the new SM codex and see which one you like better. Besides the grenade options and the bolter banner, White Scars > Ravenwing. Hit & Run, Ignore difficult terrain, and +1 Jink – lovely stuff…

    1. Damn, Tallarn sounds like a mean game. Still don't understand AP2 when it gets harder to wound models with a weaker save.

      Seriously, Tallarn sounds like a horribly mean game. Damn.

    2. Its the old trade off of a weapon having a drawback, Melta have horrible range, Plasma get hot and Grav can't wound an ork... If it always wounded on a 2+ at AP2 everyone would be screaming about it being broken, instead everyone is confused lol.

      Its all about having the right tool for the right job, and right now ill take them to counter all the monstrous creatures running about! Nothing was funnier than seeing a pair of Rip Tides chased across the table last night because the Centurions were closing in on them. Normally people put them right in your face and know you won't be able to kill it!

    3. "instead everyone is confused" made me laugh. I'm sure someone will explain it so it makes sense.

      That does sound funny. Poor little Riptides running away. Wondering if any players in my area did the same as you yesterday. Brought their models down to the store or broke them out in the basement and played a game with the rules. That is fanaticism that I enjoy.

  2. My store didn't have any supply issues either. They seemed to have ample models to handle the release frenzy and have some left for the shelves.

    Seems like GW may have shaken their logistical issues. Now we wait until Nidvember or whatever is next to see.

    1. Don't think that is the last we'll hear about GW shaking their logistical issues. Until they have another three xenos release in a row we won't know. I am actually glad people are getting their Space Marines. Been meaning to check Spikey Bitz to see how their shipment went.

  3. One fix you missed was the drop pod capacity: into longer has 10 seats for 12 models!

    1. 5th ed Space Marines codex pg 69 and 135 says 12 models, one dreadnought or one thunderfire cannon.

      When you typed that I was like 'what?' I have had a drop pod list rolling around in my head for several years with Master of the Forge in a drop with a 10 marine tactical squad. You had me doubt myself. Which is actually terribly weird. 6th ed Dark Angels has drop pod capacity at 10 not 12. So 5th ed Space Marine drop pods are more advanced than 6th ed Dark Angel drop pods.

    2. But like I said they fixed that. A guy at my FLGS played a list with 3 pods, 2 with a 10 man squad and a character in them! It was a source of much joking, mostly about Lysander sitting on a marines knee, as there was no seat for him!

    3. Whoever writes the FAQS doesn't look at the all the codexes otherwise I'm sure they would've changed 6th ed Dark Angel drop pods to match 5th ed Space Marine Codex. Wonder if that will ever be updated in a FAQ. Or maybe Phil Kelly doesn't read other codexes or he goes what the models capable of. I'm with you. The model only allows ten. Which is funny, Lysander sitting on a marines knee.

  4. *it no, not into! Damn auto correct

  5. Always bugged me that Space Wolves pods only sat 10 while SM pods held 12. Joked that it was because SW weren't that kind of friendly.

    1. Now that is funny, Hudson. SW not being that kind of friendly.

  6. Thankfully they didn't add anything cheesy like my transports having a not-a-weapon D6+1 ignores cover attack and the ability to make pens glances.

  7. I don't like the whole why is the space marines codex cheaper thing, I play 4 armies (chaos, eldar, sm, nids)of which 3 now have a 6th edition codex out. It's not actually cheaper it just has more stuff in it - doing a per page is not really fair as space marines are the main focus of GW, they are the flagship sales and pretty much what keeps the business in operation, they have to give them more focus. How much lore is written for each xenos species by the black library compared to the imperial armies? The marines codex should have been even longer frankly, and it should have set the precedent on which other codexes could be equally long.

    After all more tac boxes sell than all of GW's other kits...Face it man, if you want your xenos armies to get any goodies or updates at all, you neeed space marines to be given enough love to make the sales, keeping this game alive!

    1. Syra, I agree Space Marines are GWs main focus.

      Those are the numbers. There's no arguing with numbers. Cost of codex per page. If codex was priced on how much was in it then Space Codex is either under-priced or previous 6th ed codexes are over-priced.

      Agreed it can set a precedent that other codexes should be equally long.

      I do face it. Your last point about xenos armies getting goodies means the space marines are given enough love to make sales to keeps the game alive, is akin to poor paying more for stuff, which means giving the rich breaks so they keep the system running. Agreed it's not ideal nor fun but it is the unfortunate world we live in and play in.

  8. This marks my switch to Heavy Gear, what wasn't mentioned is the chapter tactics and that they can stack if one takes allies. Because everyone wants relentless devestators with tank hunter and TL bolters for everyone.

    1. That's too bad, Anon 6:53am. Didn't give the codex a thorough read. Just glimpses for a first impression. I'm not a play-by-play 40k'er to give the entire book a thorough break down. That does sound rough though.

    2. Different SM chapters allied together are Battle Brothers, pg. 77. Also, first paragragh on page 77 states that you get the Chapter Tactics for the detachment you are in, so no you don't get to stack 2 different Chapter Tactics, unless you can by joining an Independant Character to their Battle Brother Ally.


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