Saturday, November 10, 2012

6th ed Rules of the Game "The Challenges Edition"

Looking for some feedback/opinions on challenges.  Here are a couple of things that came up a couple of weeks ago when facing Shawn's Eldar.

Ever-living Challenge

Necron Codex 5th ed pg 29

If the model was locked in close combat when it 'died,' and the combat is ongoing, then it must immediately pile in.

Context: Avatar kills Destroyer Lord.  Destroyer Lord makes his Ever-living.  The challenge isn't over because the combat "challenge" the Avatar issued to the Destroyer Lord isn't over right?

Whip coils Challenge

Necron Codex 5th ed pg 44

Whilst any enemy model is in base contact with a model with whip coils they count their Initiative valve as 1, regardless of their actual Initiative value.

Necron FAQ Official Update for 6th Ed v1.1

Page 44 - Canoptek Wraith, Whip Coils.
Change the second paragraph to read "Any enemy modle that is in base contact with a Canoptek Wraith with whip coils at the beginning of the Fight sub-phase counts their Initiative value as 1 until the end of the Assault phase, regardless of their actual Initiative."

Necron FAQ Official Update for 6th Ed v1.1

Q: If a Canoptek Wraith with whip coils is slain by a enemy models not in base contact and at a higher Initiative step, when do the enemy models that were initially in base contact and affected by the whip coils (and therefore reduced to Initiative 1) actually fight? (p44)
A: The effects of the whip coils/lash whips take place at the beginning of the Fight sub-phase and last until the end of the Assault phase, so the affected models would still fight at Initiative step 1 that turn.

40k6 pg 64 Issuing a Challenge

Challenges are issued at the start of the Fight sub-phase, before any blows are struck.

Context: Avatar assaults Destroyer Lord and Canoptek Wraith squad.  Avatar lands in contact with the Destroyer Lord and Avatar Challenges Destoyer Lord.  Does the Avatar attack at Initiative step 1 because Wraith was in base-to-base before or at same time as Avatar?

slainte mahth


  1. When resolving a challenge the two characters count as being only in base to base with each other. Even when the FAQ says that the whip coils take effect even when the Wraith is slain in that combat, they wouldn't take effect if there is no effective base to base contact.

    In fact, this FAQ entry avoids the posible situation where a miniature got its initiative reduced from 4 (for example) to 1, due to the whip, and then restored to 4 by the wraith being killed at initiative step 3, causing that miniature couldn't strike at all.

    IMHO, the whip coil couldn't affect a character in a duel against another miniature with no coils at all. The same as with DE wych shardnets...

  2. By the wording above they take place at the same time. A similiar thing happens with mind shackle scarabs right?

    Somewhere on the internets I read that the controlling player decides the order of events that happen at the same time. Meaning the person whose turn it is, but I don't know of a rule that says that.

    Searched and found it:

    page 9:
    "At other times, you'll find that both players will have to do something at the same time. When these things happen, the player whose turn it is decides the order in which the events occur."

    1. That is a great catch, Suijin.

      That line is exactly what I've been looking for regarding Deathmarks deep striking after an enemy unit deep strikes. Specifically who shoots first. The enemy would decided to shoot at Deathmarks before they did their +2 Hunters from Hyperspace.

      Mindshackle Scarabs actually happen before other actions. Per Necron FAQ v 1.1 "At the start of the Figght sub-phase, after charges have been made, but before any blows are struck..."

      I've highlighted that part in my rulebook. Again, great catch, Suijin.

    2. Mind shackle scarabs:
      Don't MSS happen at the same time as declaring challenges and whip coils? So the player whose turn it is decides whether to resolve the MSS before the challenge combatants are separated. People typically like to have the MSS used in the challenge but if it is not your turn then they would have it resolved first which may put the effect on a worthless grunt of the unit rather than the character you are facing in the challenge

      Glorious Intervention also happens at the start of the fight sub-phase.

      Yeah bad thing about the deathmarks being in the other players turn, but at least there is an answer.

    3. Yes, MSS occur at the same time as Challenges and Whipe Coils. Since we know who controls when events occur they could have MSS go before Challenges are issued.


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